Pre-order

One day, the latest Cleland machine, the Landseer, may be manufactured in a limited run. To help any manufacturer make a commercial decision, you can register your interest with a comment on this page. No obligation, of course.

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You can read all about it here.

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37 Responses to Pre-order

  1. Bob Steed says:

    Sign me up.

    • gmacleland says:

      Cheers.
      Unfortunately, there’s not been the faintest whiff of interest in manufacturing and marketing.
      Not yet, anyway.

  2. Y Jervis says:

    Very interested in this bicycle and strongly hope there is a production run, I’ll definitely be saving the pennies now should that occur. Read about Geoff Apps bicycle years ago in my teens in a library book and found it fascinating. I also vaguely remember David Wraith Sharman/Highpath Engineering (I think that’s right but forgive me if I’m wrong) making something along the same principles in a magazine article but sadly heard nothing of it afterwards. Whilst I love cycling I never found the sport side of cycling all that interesting I loved the fun you could have on a bike so for me the mountainbike was brilliant because it arrived just in time to save my joints from continually riding similar terrain on an old roadster and did away with 1 spd ‘squirt then freewheel for a bit’ rides on a BMX for longer jaunts. My journeys became more about short cuts, were markedly faster especially off road plus they were far more fun. I do hope this bicycle sees the light of day, think a hub gear system would however vastly improve the credentials (a derailleur system is just wrong in the mud) of the bicycle. Don’t know if it would affect the handling fore and aft (hopping might be an issue if it was too heavy, something like going diagonally down along a slip bank) but would make mud plugging a piece of cake.

  3. Ian... says:

    Could well be Geoff & hope this year is ‘the’ year of the Cleland! Please keep us informed.

    • James Hunter says:

      Reliable, low maintenance and comfortable perfect! This is how most bikes should be made these factors will promote cycling as a serious mode of transport. Most people have the idea that bikes are unreliable, hard to fix and uncomfortable! Bike shops mostly offer only racing or mountain bikes which is a real shame. I have built my own version of the Cleland bike from spare parts from other bikes, hub gears, roller brakes, tall handlebars etc. Would be great to be able to just buy these “of the peg.”

      • gmacleland says:

        Hello James, sounds like you’re ‘one of the few’. It would be excellent if you could post some photos of your machine and tell us a bit about how you find the riding experience. I’ve now completed the new prototype Landseer, and it’s proving to be everything I hoped it would be. You can read the story of its creation and design factors on its own website, the URL is: crosscountrycycle.wordpress.com

  4. JensM says:

    I stumbled onto your wonderful site following a link from either the CTC forum or from the Rough Stuff Fellowship last night and immediately fell for the philosophy bit, having fallen prey to the “modern” MTB scene and having bought a bike so horrendously uncomfortable that it put me off biking for more than a decade due to a combination of herniated discs (4 EA) and a bike that was way to small and cramped for my 6 feet 8 inches long corpus.

    Being somewhat of a “purist” in the sense of wanting to have one, non specialised machine, for all round usage, I have chosen to go for the British “touring” ideal and am currently building up a Surly LHT 700 for all perceived bicycle usage, based on earlier experiences with bikes along this lines.

    Now I want a Cleland as well, as your stated philosophy just clicked with what I have experienced and thought about. Situated in Norway, we have our share of rain and mud as well as the regular, heavy snow.

    Having spent much of the day, browsing your site and looking at videos this bike looks like it ticks all my boxes, but I was wondering about sizing information ?

    All I have found so far, have been some mentions of 18″ frames and that I do think will be way to small even with the radically different riding style your frame offers.

    Being as mentioned earlier, somewhat of a taller fellow with the build of a retired rugby player and the weight to match, properly sizing is an important factor for me.

    I could probably run 31″ wheels without them looking big on a rightly sized frame, so to speak and would be interested in getting on the list or over time collecting the neccesary information to do a self build.

    With best regards, from Norway

    JensM
    🙂

    • gmacleland says:

      Hello Jens ~
      I guess you’ll be happy to discover that I’ve started a blog to follow the process of building a new ‘replicable’ Aventura. Obviously, this will take several months, and will address the issues you are asking about.
      Have a look at: http://crosscountrycycle.wordpress.com

      • Roibeard says:

        The new blog is currently marked as private, but I’m sure will be worth waiting for…

      • gmacleland says:

        Thanks for that; I’ve checked the settings and it is a public site, so everyone should be able to read it. Contact again if you still can’t see it.

  5. mike lomas says:

    Hi Geoff,
    We are now living just up the road in Kelso – perhaps we could meet up? Last time we got together you were in Ford and we were in Winchester.
    regards
    Mike Lomas

  6. Sam Powrie says:

    Hi Geoff, I want one of these – a steel framed version would be best (#1). I actually dislike the Shimano rear geared hub – mainly because it’s so fiddly when it comes to fixing a flat. I much prefer the S/A arrangements or the Rohloff. Anyway – mere details! I’m in!
    Sam,
    Adelaide.
    Australia.

    • gmacleland says:

      OK! Wish I could sell you one, but any kind of production is a long way off. And things are not looking good for that new frame. Now, about the hub gear. I’ve found that roller brakes are the best option for the following reasons: 1) They work well, excellent modulation, which means they don’t lock your wheel so easily as other braking systems. This is important because as soon as you do lock your wheel, you loose a certain amount of control and braking effect (think ABS on cars). 2) They are very cheap by comparison to any other braking system that’s worth considering. 3) They are virtually zero maintenance, which is not only a long-term cost saving, but long-term stress saving as well – this is a mental health issue! The brakes on my prototype have been working for nearly six years, requiring only the occasional squidge of grease. That brings us to 4) because they work with grease, they are completely unaffected by water, so river riding and ford crossings present no subsequent braking issues. 5) The brake assembly is a discrete unit which can easily be refitted to any suitable hub and doesn’t require special mounts (as do disc brakes). This means they can be used with almost any frame. I think those are enough good points. The problems with these brakes are 1) they are relatively heavy. A very small price to pay for the benefits listed above. Also, it would be quite possible to manufacture them a lot lighter, assuming you had tons of dosh. 2) On very long and steep descents, the grease begins to burn off. The one time I’ve experienced this was after about two or three miles; distinct whiff of burning grease. I took the opportunity to take a break and do something else while the brakes cooled down a bit. However, for the rest of the ride they seemed to function normally. Moreover, it is quite feasible to carry a ‘single dose’ tube of grease and dead simple to squeeze it in; no dismantling required, there’s an easily accessible port. Right, you may now be wondering why I’m going on at length about brakes, when the topic is actually hub gears. The reason is that whichever gear hub you choose, it is worth giving serious thought to the brake system that goes with it. In my case I want roller brakes, so Nexus Inter 8 it has to be. Sturmey Archer did produce a roller brake compatible hub, but I believe this is now discontinued. Furthermore, the NuVinci N360 is also available in a compatible version. Now we get to the puncture issue, and the necessity of relatively frequent removal and refitting of wheels in the event of a puncture. My AventuraTT prototype doesn’t get punctures. I’ve fitted motorcycle duty tubes. Heavy? Yes, but again, a small price to pay for the benefits. Cheap? Fairly so; fashionable MTB spares usually carriy a price-loading which unfashionable motorcycle spares do not. If you go this route, be aware that MC sizes are different to MTB sizes ~ not a problem though, you simply need the right information. So, to summarise: Shimano hub gears are OK (actually, there’s a little wheeze with a screwdriver that makes disconnection a doddle).

      • Robin says:

        Did you manage to get any of the newer IM80 brakes to test?

        I see Brant Richards is now working with On-One again. Not sure if that makes any difference to your timescales.

  7. fatfingers47 says:

    Yes, I’d like one too.

    • gmacleland says:

      Fingers crossed that the production machines become available. Looks like it’ll be some time yet.

      • fatfingers47 says:

        This bike sounds exactly what I’ve been looking for. I am not an experienced multi-bike owner, just somebody who likes to cycle, has nearly always cycled (apart from time spent living abroad where no-one cycled) and who would like to get away from roads more. (Drivers may well complain about badly-behaved cyclists but these are a small minority compared to the numbers of inconsiderate drivers around.)
        My brother tells me that, because Britain is no longer a cycling nation, the main ‘model’ for cycling is racing. I do not see the point of riding through typical British weather on typically badly maintained roads with smooth road tyres, without mudguards and with vulnerable derailleur gears.

  8. terry says:

    I very much hope this project comes to fruition, and a could both afford to buy one and would do so, if they go on sale. I’ve just finished converting my 700c road bike for off road as a “29er”, with some tele forks and Mavic wheels. It’s obvious the Cleland machine is well thought out, with its compact chain line, enclosed gears and step through frame. This is a serious off road bike, which should perform better than any machine on the market, and deserves better publicity and commercial success.

  9. terry says:

    This is an opportunity to own a truly exclusive bike, and one that’s going to be a genuine joy to ride. I own a Ridgeback with roller front brake and Sram P-5/iBrake on the rear, so know the advantages. I might be able to afford the titanium frame/Rolhof and always wanted a Rolhof bike, but wasn’t attracted by the Thorn model. I liked the Canondale Badboy Rolhof, but this Cleland machine is the biz!

    • gmacleland says:

      Wow, such enthusiasm! I could never return to a ‘normal’ mountain bike now. Keep your fingers crossed as regards production machines. Why not email Brant @ shedfire?

  10. Robin says:

    Any chance of rear disc mounts? I don’t suppose it is possible to mount roller brakes on the centrelock splines on an Alfine 11 speed hub.

    • gmacleland says:

      The frame will have adjustable dropouts in various configurations; one (if not all) will carry a rear disc mount.
      Regarding the Alfine 11 speed hub; I am hoping that may be the case. I have to do a little research to see what the technical details are. But you can’t always trust what you find out; the only way is to have the Alfine in one hand and a rollerbrake in the other, and see what happens!

      • Robin says:

        I measured across the splines of a centerlock XT hub and the diameter is 35.5mm
        If the splined interface for a roller brake (splines are very different shape) is larger than this it might be possible
        to make a centerlock to roller brake adapter, but I suspect the sizes are too close.

      • gmacleland says:

        Yes, we’ve been thinking about an adaptor. There’s not much space to play with. Looking at precision laser-cut stainless steel. Time and money; both in short supply, but when the time is right…

      • gmacleland says:

        I’ve just discovered the Nexave BR-IM75 (not IM70) which, apparently, fits the disc brake splines! Will have to research this!!

      • gmacleland says:

        Err,no, doesn’t fit the splines; it fits the mounts! BAH!

  11. Pingback: Here it is… | Cleland Cycles

  12. Chris says:

    Hi Geoff, Just stumbled to your site today. Nice to see someone thinking through problems in a non standard fashion.

    I’m in the USA in the Midwest and although nothing like English weather we have a fair amount of rain and mud. I’ve been formally mountain biking since 1983 and have tried various builds to enable me to keep riding when it gets wet with as little hassle as possible. I too designed a functioning drive train guard system that keeps the gears working no matter how much mud, about 6 years ago. Send me an email address and I’ll send you some pictures. The things I learned during the process are you need fairly skinny tires with tall knobs and a soft rubber (we have a lot of tree roots and wet rocks too) and the advent of mud specific downhill tires has really helped with this. The second is suspension. I tried a lot of variations with rigid bikes and nothing worked because my tires would deflect off of rocks or logs etc and I would loose control. Full suspension made a big difference. Lower gearing, fenders and the chainguard system all added to being able to keep pedaling rather than walking.

  13. emily. says:

    I think this bike would be perfect for my dad, and we’re in Wyoming … a place that one would think mountain bikes would be perfect. It’s a lie.
    Our particular concern is how this bike design performs in ice and snow. The mud testing speaks well for your bike, but I’d like to know if you’ve tried it in snow or on ice.

    • gmacleland says:

      Hello Emily ~

      On fresh snow up to about 4″ is fine, particularly if the ambient temperature is around or below freezing. However, once the conditions begin to vary from that; thaw then freeze, hardpack, slick, granular, sheer, it is really essential to fit winter tyres ~ http://www.suomityres.com/ext294.html. With these tyres fitted, you at least have a good chance of staying vertical, and the relative ease with which the Aventura can be balanced, helps keep you that way. Thanks for your interest ~ Geoff Apps

  14. scruss says:

    Okay, one for me. Quite how we’ll get it to Canada, I’ll never know.

    Seeing as you describe the AventuraTT as a “Mountain bike designed by a dutch lady”, and I’m very happy with basically the same drivetrain on my Batavus Crescendo, this should be good.

  15. Martin Brennan says:

    Put me in for one.

  16. grahamwallace says:

    I became an original customer of Cleland Cycles back in 1984, after experiencing for myself, the limitations of the American mountain bikes in our British mud. Since then I have watched mainstream mountain bike design adopt many of Geoff Apps’ original ideas and solutions. But even after all the intervening years, we are still to see a bike emerge that even approaches the fitness for purpose of Geoff’s original Cleland designs.

    We ride around on mountain bikes where the chain scrapes the mud off the rear tyre. We leave small trenches in our wake as we ride along through the soft British top-soils with over-inflated tyres.
    We refuse to fit mudguards as they are ill-fitting and ugly afterthoughts, even if this means getting a cold wet stripe of mud up our backs when we ride.

    In Geoff Apps’ new design we at last have a bike that looks as if it has been been designed around its mudguards. And enjoying the British mud will no longer come with a maintenance price tag for either the bike your your washing machine.

    What were we thinking?
    Next time you ride off-road, work out your average speed: 6mph? 8mph? 10mph?
    Why put up with numb wrists and your bottom higher than your head at speeds were aerodynamics aren’t important? Why care about speed at all? Just enjoy the countryside, the camaraderie, and riding through the mud with impunity.

    A new practical off-road bike is well overdue. And I hope it marks a return to sanity, and a cure to those with permanently arched spines.

  17. Stephen Green says:

    I might be interested… Would you sell complete bikes, or would you be willing to sell the frame and the special components?

    • gmacleland says:

      Since one of the basic ideas behind the Cleland philosophy is to make the bikes as ‘best value’ as possible; some components may not be the cheapest option, but they may be the best value for money in long-term reliability coupled with a low (or zero) maintenance regime, whereas other components may be the cheapest available, because they again provide best value for money. It is always cheaper for the consumer to buy a complete bicycle, because it’s cheaper for the manufacturer. There is not much choice in the marketplace for suitable ‘best value’ components, I should know; I spend most days searching. If you bought a frame, and all the specialist bits as a package, that’s a more expensive operation, and who’d end up paying the extra? Then I’d have to draw up a components list so that you’d be able to get hold of all the stuff you’d need to build your Cleland.
      So, in answer to your question: Yes.
      (but you’d need a pretty damned good reason for wanting to)

  18. SIL4 says:

    Hi Geoff,

    I think you’ve got something pretty special there…there’s nothing quite like it on the market and I think when people start to hear about this and see it, they will understand why. It’s oozes fitness for purpose and intent and the design features you’ve incorporated reflect that. Pity it took the future so long to catch up with you…hub gears, 29er etc etc.

    I think it’s the perfect antidote to the current MTB market and, while it wont appeal to everyone, it does it for me.

    I want one please – and black is just fine…

    Cheers SIL4.

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